Deviant Nation : Kittie : Clawing to the Top

Clawing to the Top

Everything that could have gone wrong for this Canadian metal band, did -- but the girls of Kittie continue to do everything right.

Writer: Spiff

Jan 06 98

23 Comments

Amusingly ironic Kittie story #1: On the night that we're scheduled to interview the band, Kittie is playing the House of Blues in Anaheim, California … in the dead center of Downtown Disney, an elaborate mish-mash of upscale restaurants and boutiques a stone's throw from the Magic Kingdom. We are in the mouse's house, and we are here to see a death metal band.
Later on, I'll cackle gleefully whenever the doors to the club open like a hell mouth and a blast of furious riffing explodes into the milling crowd of unsuspecting tourists gathered in the club's placid theme-restaurant. After what Kittie lead signer / songwriter Morgan Lander later tells me about the band's recent past, I take the scene as a poignant metaphor for what Kittie has been going through over the past few years: No matter how hard you try, you can not silence this band.
Amusingly ironic Kittie story # 2: For a band whose relationship with its label has all but totally collapsed, Kittie runs itself like a well-oiled machine. The folks at the band's merchandising table take great pains to head backstage and locate someone for us to speak to - and then, while we're standing around expecting a tour manager, we're greeted enthusiastically by Morgan herself, who bounds out from backstage to shake hands and lead us back to the Kittie dressing room, taking a few seconds to first greet and hug fans who squeal in delighted recognition. We are in the mouse' s house, we are here to see a death metal band and they're … insanely courteous.
The vibe from this meeting will flavor the rest of the night: not only are Morgan and the rest of the band extremely friendly and welcoming to us, but they extend the same warmth to their fans - even when said fans are busy bashing one another with kidney punches as they stomp through the pit. It's that vibe - that laser-beam focus on keeping things well-organized, positive and more about "us" instead of "me" that has earned Kittie a rabid fan base that endures despite the fact that the band has not released an album in 2 years.
The fans are well rewarded for their dedication: Kittie puts on a brutal, audience-inclusive live show whose set list includes songs from its two, progressively ferocious albums (1999's Spit and 2001's Oracle) as well as a liberal dousing of new tracks. It's the new stuff that really elevates the show; the newer tracks, which, due to a bitter lawsuit between the band and Artemis Records, may take years to see official release, exhibit a band that's evolved light years beyond its already impressive debut. Their chops are mightier; their song structure is more complex. Their sense of dynamics and their willingness to experiment with harmony highlight an epic growth in the band's performance and songwriting skills. And while the group has long been both victimized and advantaged by the diminished expectations of critics, labels and peers, it's clear that the band does not hold the bar low for itself.
During our half-hour or so with Morgan, we discovered a woman - and a band - that's earned its stripes on all fronts, whether fighting legal battles with its label or winning over skeptics who earlier dismissed the group as a pre-fab gimmick whose biggest selling point were its age (the band began when Morgan and her sister, drummer Mercedes Lander, were in high school) and its collective gender (although original guitarist Fallow Bowman, now fronting Amphibious Assault, was replaced by the band's very male guitar tech, Jeff Phillips). Take it as a warning: mess with the Kittie, and you'll get the claws.
Sean Flinn: So, first off - I don't know how far this question is going to get, but let's dig right into the controversy.
Morgan Lander: Ah! What controversy is that?
There have been a couple, actually. I've seen press releases coming through as you've torn a trail across the United States. But the first one was about your relationship with Artemis Records falling apart.
Ah yes.
How much can you talk about that?
Well, I can pretty much say what is in the press release already: it's very apparent that they didn't have the band's success and potential in their interests. This has been going on for quite some time now - the poor relationship - but just recently (as of April) we decided to speak up about it because of the whole audit thing with Garth Richardson [who produced both of Kittie's albums, ed.]. He's involved with the suit as well.
What was the deal with the audit? Was it just royalties not being paid to him or … ?
Well they actually didn't pay him.
At all?
No. We recorded Oracle in May of 2001, and only this year did he get paid. He was like, "OK, they haven't paid me yet," so the audit happened. And it ended up that there were some glaring things there in terms of where the money was spent and how many times they charged us for recoupable things and moneys in royalties owed, which totaled up to $900,000.
Holy crap.
Yeah, this is a 100% legit auditing company. They do this for major corporations all across the United States. They [Artemis} deny it, but you can't deny a professional going in a doing the audit. I mean, it's real.
So yeah. There haven't been a lot of things - support, both financially and emotionally, for the band. We haven't been allowed to do videos, we haven't been allowed to open up for bands, we haven't been allowed to do movie soundtracks …
… Which is weird, because Spit seemed to do so well when it first came out, that you'd think they would have been trying to build on that success with Oracle.
I know, but I mean … midway through the year that Spit was released was when they pulled all of the tour support and all of the other things.
Did they ever give you any reasons for that or … ?
No. It was just yanked out from under us. And we've been paying out of our own pockets ever since for touring and stuff like that, to let the fans know that we're still alive, we're still out there and we're still making music. It's just unfortunate, because the money that we're making should actually be our money, not going back into the band.
You should be making a living on that.
Exactly, and it's just we're sort of, I guess, eating ourselves in a way. We're making this money that we have to put back into the band.
Just kind of cannibalizing it.
Yeah, absolutely.
Well, that leads perfectly into my next question -- a lot of artists seem to be trying to make a go of it on their own. They've been building up a certain reputation and then leaving their labels for exactly the same reasons that you guys are leaving Artemis.
Well, we're hoping to leave Artemis.
Do you foresee, at some point, signing with another label, or do you think that you're going to start releasing music on your own, or using the Website more to put stuff out?
That's a good question. As it stands, right now we pretty much are our own label and have been doing things ourselves in terms of our publicists, booking our own tours, doing merchandising. We own all of our publishing and that sort of thing, so it is pretty much that we're running a label out of our home except for the distribution. So that could very well be a possibility. But, on the other hand, it would be interesting to see what could be done with this band from a major label point of view - or a bigger label point of view. I mean, we've only ever known being on a small label like Artemis, so the potential could be absolutely huge, which would be amazing.
Has there been any interest from the major labels at all?
Well, we can't really talk to anybody, but we've heard some things.
That's promising at least.
It's cool. That's not the problem. Getting signed to another label, I think, would be fairly easy …
…it's just getting free of that first one that's tough. Well, I think you're probably in good company, suing your label to get released from a contract.
I'm sure there're many people who have done it. And also, the band Boston is on our label as well and they're currently in a lawsuit of sorts for the same thing, but for $4 million. So it's a lot larger. Obviously, Boston is a very big band, and they're very financially successful, and they released their last album on Artemis and it did, like, 20,000 copies? They were promised a lot of things, as we were, and they didn't end up following through.
So, when you guys started this band, did you foresee that you'd be learning as much about this side of the industry as you have over the last few years? I mean, at the very least, this has probably been a huge learning experience, right?
Oh, absolutely! It's been a learning experience, and I'm just glad that we didn't do it with a major label, because it probably would be even worse fighting this huge superpower.
One with all the money for lawyers that it could possibly spare.
Yes, absolutely. Which isn't to say that Artemis doesn't have a lot of money. The people that are running it don't have a lot of money, but the actual business does.
Well, they have a million dollars of your money.
[laughter]
Unfortunately yes. I'm sure they went out and bought shoes and A/V equipment with all of it, or something. But no, it's been a huge learning experience, and I don't think we would have done it if we thought, "Oh we're just going to go in here and make some music and get manipulated." It's a cut-throat business, and we were urged to learn as much as possible -- especially from our parents, who were saying, "You need to know where your money's going and how this works." We read the books and we hear a lot about it.
So it was a huge learning experience -- much more interesting than staying in high school, I think. Not only on the money point of view and actually going out and playing, but the whole entrepreneurial side of things. We're out running our own business.
You've learned everything an MBA would learn, and you don't have to wear a suit.
It's crazy. I didn't even finish high school, which is absolutely crazy. I left school to do this.
You said that you've been touring out of your own pocket just to let the fans know that you're still here. Has it been tough to tour in support of no new album? I mean, I know you have new material, and we'll talk about that in a little bit, but …
It has been tough. It's just unfortunate that this whole thing had to go on, which in turn held back the potential new album. But, looking at the figures, in terms of the financial side of things, it's been tough because we're paying the money that we should be investing for "a brighter future!" or whatever. But, the show's have been great. We have the most dedicated fans, who come out to shows and follow us through states. It's amazing that a band who hasn't had an album in two years and hasn't had label support in almost four still can draw the people that we draw. It's just amazing.
How much of a road dog is this band? How much time do you guys spend on the road, and how much time would you like to spend on the road?
Well, we're definitely not spending as much time as I would like, but we do spend a lot of time on the road. Last year, I think we were on the road for … we left in march and we didn't come back until February the next year. We just toured … did tour after tour after tour, constantly. And, after February of this year, we took a break because of the lawsuit. And it was also an opportunity to write. We ended up having to take a break because of the lawsuit and that sort of thing, but it was also an opportunity to write and sort of see where things were going to take us with the lawsuit - whether it was going to be long and drawn out or whether it was going to be quick or whatever. So we got some writing done, which was really great.
Let's talk a little bit about the new material. I heard that you guys are playing, what, five new songs?
We actually added another one.
So six!
Yes. The last couple of dates there've been six, so it's been kind of like a special thing, a special occasion. When we're feeling great, we're like, "Let's bust out another one!"
So what can we expect? I know the progression from Spit to Oracle was … at least you and pretty much everyone else said that it really cranked up the volume …
It was huge, and I think this leap is even more so. It's just more three-dimensional. Here's more technical stuff: more time changes, more dynamics, but it all still very much sounds like this band … just a way better version, I guess? And also, Jen [bassist Jennifer Arroyo] has been with the band for two years now, and that has really sort of made everyone better players, to have that piece of the puzzle and everything falling into place.
Having a stable lineup has really helped the band.
Yeah, and knowing that everyone is happy, with where they are in the band and just happy in general. We've had people in the band before that were not happy at all, and that's just really sad. So the positivity level is just like … everything internally in this band is perfect. It's great.
You mentioned that the new material is stretching out a little bit. You guys are rock solid a metal band. Do you think that the genre at any time is more rigid than you'd like it to be, or do you think the fans within the genre tolerate some experimentation from the groups as they get older?
Yeah, I think so. I think is a way, we're sort of a shining example of that, that people do tolerate certain things both ways. Some of our fan favorites are the lighter songs: "Charlotte," and "In Winter" and that sort of stuff. But kids also love to get in the pit. So I don't know - I think people really … it all depends on the certain kind of fan. You know, there's the extreme metal fan, like death metal fans that only listen to death metal. And that's cool - but I mean, we have people who only listen to that kind of music that come to our shows too. And I think there are a few bands out there that are breaking that mold, I guess, when it comes to, "You have to be straight ahead crazy metal or nothing at all!" There's melody being worked into certain things now, even with the more extreme bands, like Killswitch Engage. They're a brutal band and they're amazing musicians, but there's also some melody in there. So that's a good thing.
The thing I wonder about that band is whether the old industrial band killswitch .. click ever shakes its fists about the name … Anyway, more along the lines of being confined: when you guys started out, the metal scene - and hard rock in general - was really seen as a boys' club. Have you guys seen that change at all?
Oh yeah. Arch Enemy has a female singer now, and I think it's great because they've been getting a lot of attention, and it's kind of like … somebody else to speak up for women. But it's funny that nobody paid attention to Arch Enemy before, when they didn't have a woman in the band and now their albums are sellin' like hot cakes. And My Ruin, from L.A., just got signed to Century Media. And there's Otep ... there's tons of stuff. Lacuna Coil has been getting a lot more press as well. So it's starting to become a more acceptable thing, and hopefully, someday, people won't even ask that question. "You're a lady! Blah blah blah!"
Absolutely. Well, how much of an anchor around your neck was that whole thing over the last few years?
I don't know. I think there were obviously pros and cons to it. The better side of it was that there weren't a lot of mainstream hard rock women out there, so it was like the curiosity factor … people were like, "I've heard a little bit about them, I don't know if they're good or bad, but I'm gonna go to the show anyways just to see." And then they made their decision there.
At the same time, that's all people wanted to talk about. It kind of made me angry. I'd open up a magazine like, say, Metal Maniacs or Metal Edge, and there'd be an Incubus interview and they'd be talking about the depth of the music and all that, and in our interview they'd be talking about, "Oh, they're girls." The whole interview would be about us being women and us being young. There was not a word about the music. And I think first and foremost, we're a good band. We play music. I guess it's just another one of those things that we'll have to continue to overcome. But I think now, the initial hype has sort of died down in terms of, "Oooooohhh … four young girls! Blah blah blah!", now we can focus on the music and so can the fans.
Did you feel like you had to riff that much harder when you were writing those songs just to get people to stop asking those questions?
I think that was the intention of Oracle, just to be like, "Let's make an album that's a lot more brutal than the first one, just to prove that we're heavy." And now we can do whatever we want. We got that out of the way.
But it's even scarier now. Just wait until you hear the new stuff.
[laughter]
So, let's gets past the "women rocking" questions and get into some of the songwriting questions. Are you still writing a majority of the songs for the band?
Yep.
How participatory is the songwriting process? When does it all start coming together? When you get an idea in your head for a song, how does it grow from there and end up on the record?
The whole process has sort of changed in a way because, first of all, we have Jen in the band, and second of all, she's doesn't live in the same country as us. So, it's a little bit of a difficult situation, but it's also very cool. For the most part, I write riffs that I think can go together. I'm not good with song structure. I leave that up to the rhythm section. Between Mercedes and Jen, they're very good with arranging which part can go where, how the song should start, interludes branching in between and that sort of thing. Basically, I write the main riffs and the skeleton of the song. Then, when we all get together, that's we things evolve. The whole thing about taking them on the road too was just to let those songs evolve themselves, from playing them night after night.
Do you ever change the songs based on reaction you see from the fans or how they feel when you play them on stage?
No, not really. I can't say that we've ever done that. But I can say that the songs have evolved and changed based on the dynamics of playing them in a set. If it's between two heavier songs, possibly we play it a little heavier or rock out a little more. The songs just take on a life of their own that feels right -- either we slow them down or speed them up or do different things with different parts.
Where are you writing? Where do these songs come from? I mean, when Spit came out, I think people were a little bit surprised to hear those lyrics coming out of somebody who was being tagged with the label of, "Young, female, Canadian" or whatever …
[Laughs] That's the worst one!
… "What the hell do you have to get all angry about?!" So where are these songs coming from? Where do you usually go?
Now, I think it's not as much, "Fuck this! I hate this! I hate this! I hate this!" That was more Spit - I was 14-years-old, writing lyrics, getting things off my chest, being a young person and hating the world and all that stuff. I think it has evolved now. It's a little bit more focused. There still are a lot of negative things that I write about, just because … I generally enjoy my life and I'm a happy person when I'm not writing. But I still feel and I still have emotions ad it's just a lot of situation that I've gone through and things that I feel strongly about in terms of my own personal opinion. I'm not writing about politics or anything like that. I leave those up to the experts.
It seems like, as a rule, the heavier artist that I've ever talked to, the happier, more content and centered and open they are when I sit down to interview them. Do you find that the songs are a form of stress relief, a way to vent and keep you balanced?
Absolutely. It personally makes me feel good when I have something that's been bothering me for quite some time and I write it down and it becomes lyrics in a song. I get to use it every night, and it doesn't bother me anymore afterwards. And that's a good thing. I mean, I still feel the song and I'm still feeling emotion in the song, but it's like therapy. It's kinda nice.
Cool. So, how long have you guys been touring on this particular leg?
We've been out since almost exactly a month ago, so four weeks.
So, here's something that's just become a pet interest of mine; what do you guys do? You're stuck on a bus for hours on end. And I know from earlier interviews, you guys didn't used to do a whole lot of writing on the road.
Still!
What do you do to keep yourselves entertained (that you can talk about)?
Movies … we listen to music, video games are a big thing. But mostly, I mean, we just enjoy each other's company. It's a big party on the bus all the time - a little bit of drinking going on, and a lot of time we'll just sit and everybody talk and laugh. The band and the crew get along really well, and it's just cool. We just enjoy each other's company.
I have to ask, because we [me and photographer Dan "Mr. Pants" Schoenblum] as a day job work for a company called GameSpy that does nothing but video game stuff … so what games are you guys playing on the bus?
Really? Let's see … Hitman, State of Emergency … See, I'm not a big new video game person. I like Ninetndo, and that's about as far as I go. Or, you know, Intellivision, all the old stuff. Pong. That's cool. But I mean, Jennifer and [guitarist] Jeff play a lot of video games. Yeah, State of Emergency. Hitman. Tenchu. Mostly State of Emergency. That's just people getting their frustrations out, with bombs and smoke grenades and wild stuff.
That's cool. So, you guys are going to wrap up tomorrow night in L.A.?
Unfortunately. I mean, we wish we could go out for as long as possible. We'd love to have another 4 weeks tacked on. But we've got to go home and deal with the shit.
Is that pretty much what's going to be on the agenda after you get off the road? I mean, what's the road map for Kittie after you get off the tour bus?
I'll probably go home and sit in my pajamas for a couple of days. I have a lot of idea for songs that I'd like to get down, so there will be a lot of writing. But also planning and possibly negotiating, so we'll see what goes one with the whole Artemis thing. That's pretty much the one blockade. And that will tell the tale once that's out of the way: how long it's going to be until the next album, or …
Do you ever find that just sapping? Does it ever make you just want to take your marbles and go home?
Yeah. It's very, very taxing. Just because, these people are like, "Oooohh … We play hardball!" I mean, these are people's lives. They don't really realize that we have to go home and pay rent and live, and these people have already made their millions and they live comfortably. I don't think they realize that they are wrecking someone's life. It's just kind of sad. But, I think our music is stronger than that and, no matter what happens, we'll continue to make music. There'll be a third album. It's just, whenever that happens. Hopefully next year.
Are you guys obligated to Artemis for any more records?
Um … yeah. Yeah. A few. It's kind of unfortunate. I just think that they're holding us back. The potential of this band is out of control.
I know that you used to be really involved with the Kittie Website, and then had to turn it over to somebody.
Yes.
Have you got any desire or plans to get more involved with that in the future?
Actually, it's funny you ask. I'm sure a lot of our fans have noticed and you probably noticed as well that Kittie.net has not been updated since January of this year. We found out that Artemis had bought it out from under us and obviously refused to update it. So we took it upon ourselves to open up our own official Website, which is 100% run by the band, updated a few times a week actually, with news and press releases and tour dates. As of now, the design is still sort of pending. We're just waiting to get home to talk with the guy who's doing the artwork. But I mean, it will be very fan oriented - message boards and all that sort of thing. You can e-mail all of the members of the band, and it's just a place where people who enjoy the band and the music can get an opportunity to be involved.
Do you guys have an address for it yet?
Yes - it's kittierocks.com.
So there is content there and people can go log on and check out what's going on.
Yes. We urge people to go to that Website because that's you'll be able to get all the updates there.
Cool. Because it's very tough to research a band whose Website hasn't been updated in a year. Thank god for Google.
[laughs] Yeah … I apologize for that.