Your WAY to kind my writing skills at best are passable.
I hardly read anything you post. So, no, I'm not paranoid about anything you post on this site. On top of that, half of everything I read of yours is complaining about someone. Maybe you need to get over yourself, and keep yourself from popping up in my mailbox.
Pot - Kettle much?
As far as the mailbox thing, thats something you gotta do darlin, I didnt put myself there in the first place!
I just don't feel like there's anything essentially different about poly verses monogomous individuals.
Going between monogamy and poly isn't like going between lesbian and straight...is it?
If one assumes that gender preference isn't a choice as you say in your first statement how is it then people can "go between lesbian and straight." I personally believe that both are actually true....there are those that are born with a different genome that predisposes someone to be either Gay or Straight BUT I also believe there are many that choose to be Gay or Straight. And I furthermore believe that the same very well might be possible for Poly vs Monogamous.
That being said the purpose of the thread wasn't to determine which one is right or more natural but to get a feeling of how other people view relationships. Are they of the mindset that the primary relationship should be monogamous or is that asking TOO much of one person and therefore looking outside the relationship for support in areas that the primary is weak in or just not interested is okay.
I personally believe that the whole genome "I was born that way" is in MOST (not all) really more of a case of people not wanting to take responsibility for THEIR decisions that have in some way caused them what they percieve to be some hardship. And here is the inherent problem with that mindset: If I were to say well I was born an alcaholic then any of the pain and destruction that was a result of my problem I can divest myself of and therefore not feel any guilt. If I don't feel that guilt I feel less need to make amends. And if I don't recognize the pain and suffering I caused then I am effectivly illegitimizing those feelings that they feel. In turn they will feel even more abandoned and hurt and I can continue to go on my merry way to destroy more without consequence.
It is this belief in action without consequence that that has led to what I feel is what many percieve as the moral degradation in our society.....it really has nothing to do with a religous morality (although I can understand how it could be percieved that way), it is in truth an extension of the "Its all about ME" mentality. Remember John Nash's theory of eqilibrium can't remember the actual name of it at the moment......The best solution is the one where both parties win.
hmmm rambling on here I think
so for those of you familiar with Nancy Lieder and the Zeta's..........this concludes Zeta talk.
This is a loaded topic and your response included many ideas. I regret (and so does my sore ass, because I’ve been sitting on the floor :-P) that my response needs to be so long, in order to communicate my ideas. I do apologize for my confusion of the direction of the thread. I don't frequent forums often. I assumed the subject (Monogamous vs. Polyamorous) opened discussion up for anything related, but I see how the opening statement is more important than the subject.
A person can “go between lesbian and straight” because a person's brain chemistry can change without them consciously changing it. It's possible that gender preference is not genetic, but even if something isn’t set at birth it doesn't have to mean it's a choice. A mind develops routes during early development. These routes are set early on because neurons that aren't in that route die. Most of an individual's ideas about what's sexy, beautiful, and compatible are created unconsciously before they enter puberty.
In order to satisfy an internal need, a straight person may develop ways to work around their traditional way of perceiving so that they can be attracted to members of the same sex. Most of the time, this isn't a choice. It's unconscious. For instance, many people who are experiencing trauma change aspects of their person in order to deal. It's messing with the clockwork. Also, for most people, it's just not optimal to "choose" to be gay. The bad tends to outweigh the good when one thinks about making this decision. Present knowledge of the way development works paired with plain logic make a good case as to why gender preference is probably not a choice.
People also "learn" patterns unconsciously (e.g. feeling sorry for oneself, paranoia, alcoholism, narcissism, selfishness, dangerous thrill-seeking, self hate, etc.). Patterns and emotions are very different, however. Alcoholism is a behavioral pattern and gender preference is an emotion. If you argued that you're only gay if you choose to engage in homosexual activity, then being gay would be a behavioral pattern and anyone could choose to be straight. It would then be a question of identifying the "problem" and finding ways to work around it.
I firmly believe that there is a difference between acknowledging the presence of a trait and using it as an excuse. Acknowledging that you are an alcoholic doesn't mean you should destroy your life and everyone else's by drinking your life away. Problems need to be identified to be fixed. The beef I have with society is that people tend to think that admitting they have a problem means they're powerless. The "Its all about ME" mentality is an extension of the "I'm a lost cause" mentality, signifying that the individual isn't trying to better their situation. You can claim to be born with something and learn ways to combat it, helping you live a happier life.
I definitely don't think polyamory is wrong or unnatural. I never shared my views on polyamory, so my beliefs (from the little knowledge I have on the subject) are as follows. The need for attachment and the need for newness (surely there are more needs, as well) battle while we try to maintain any relationship. These needs are forces that have helped our species prosper. Polyamory and monogamy are two ways to deal with the conflict of needing attachment and newness.
Polyamory generally goes against the grain of what we have learned about relationships. I don't believe it's unconscious and wired into an individual because there doesn't seem to me to be a reason why a child would learn that optimum happiness is achieved through more than one lover. Maybe I'm wrong. This is what I was pondering. I suppose bringing up gender preference was a tricky example, and my knowledge and views on the subject really needed to be explained before asking my question.
By the way it's Nash's Equilbrium or game theory. And you've completely lost me with Nancy Lieter and the Zeta's, haha, but I suppose that's to be expected.
I also apologize for my conduct in your forum. It was disgusting and defaced the whole discussion.
First off thank you for the apology.
"A person can “go between lesbian and straight” because a person's brain chemistry can change without them consciously changing it. It's possible that gender preference is not genetic, but even if something isn’t set at birth it doesn't have to mean it's a choice. A mind develops routes during early development. These routes are set early on because neurons that aren't in that route die. Most of an individual's ideas about what's sexy, beautiful, and compatible are created unconsciously before they enter puberty."
Not knowing what your actual background in physiology or psychology is....but knowing that mine is purely non-clinical and self taught I will have to defer to this. I do agree that just because something isn't wired doesn't automatically make it a conscious descision. But on the part about the formation of what one believes is sexy ect being created before they enter puberty I do believe MAY be incorrect or at least incomplete. I base this on my own changes in what I find sexy now versus when I was younger. When I was a 12ish....I thought Suzzane Summers and Farrah Fawcett were the bomb (Let the flames start ) but now as you can probably tell being that I am a member of DN that my ideas of what are sexy have changed.
"Also, for most people, it's just not optimal to "choose" to be gay. The bad tends to outweigh the good when one thinks about making this decision. Present knowledge of the way development works paired with plain logic make a good case as to why gender preference is probably not a choice."
It is my opinion that if everyone thought rationally and logically that this would be correct. But then would you also say that a woman that continually seeks out abusive relationships is predetermined to do so and not making a choice? I think not....I've seen too many people who know thats what they are doing but they continue to do so and it has nothing to do with a chemical imbalance or genetic trait.......it is a choice, therefore one cannot just rule out because its bad for us or that the cons outweigh the benefits we wouldn't choose to do it. The same analogy could be used with cars this one is ugly and old but will last forever and gets great gas mileage, and this one is cool but will cost us 10 times more in repairs and gas mileage sucks.....but people EVERYDAY choose the cool one.
But by and far I do agree with much of what you have said here or at least don't totally disagree. As far as the Nancy Lieder thing she's a possible wacko that believes she channels the direct communications from an alien race on Zeta Reticulus and after she channels an answer or explanation she always ends with.....this concludes Zeta Talk......its truly hilarious.
Anyway I have been up for about 30 hours straight and am feeling a little loopy so let me end this here and thank you again for the apology AND for the well written and inteligent response!
So...what did you hope to accomplish by saying that? That question was rhetorical, by the way. Looking at my pet peeves to pull something out that would annoy me...how old are you?
I tried to delete it. I apologize...but only half-heartedly because I've never talked to you before and you just insulted me. I know my statements were rediculous. It was stupid of me to make them and I knew I shouldn't have. Spilt milk, though. What do you want me to do about it now?
I don't know what I'm doing with these quote things. I'm throwin' in the towel, haha.
Hm...I definitely see what you're saying. My views of sexy have changed as I've "aged" (in my elderly state of 20) as well. I guess it's more of a refining process as one gets older. I would guess that you would be into a Farreh Fawcett with up-to-date style, tattoos, and piercings (kind of like the beautiful Maya, haha)? Generally physical characteristics we initially find attractive stay with us (like a nose we think is cute, or a smile we find attractive). Gender is even more broad than a specific physical characteristic, so it's more likely than anything else to stay constant. There's definitly a learning experience attached to maturing in sexuality, but I believe it's more superficial. People can also have supressed feelings, expecially with desires they find unacceptable (e.g. tattooes or homosexuality). Also-we're fairly well programmed to be attracted to people who will make us good babies. A person's style doesn't matter much as to whether they'll make a good baby or not. ( So then why are people attracted to individuals of the same sex? I don't know! The theories don't match. I don't know. I guess because if cavemen picked same-sex partners along with opposite-sex partners, as long as they were picking good genes, they would still make sexy babies.)
Sometimes people accidentally put themselves in bad situations because they mirror the relationships the person had while developing. Even after they become aware of this cycle, it's hard to stop. I really believe this because I've put myself in life threatening situations for a person I didn't even like, and I had no idea why I kept wanting to hang out with him. It was just a need in me to fix the relationship I had lost in the past by using him as a substitute. I thought I could figure him out and then everything would come together. But It didn't, haha. So what I am trying to say is that unconsciously or consciously, to the person who's putting themself in this situation, it is optimal. There is a pressing need for them to do it. That doesn't mean they shouldn't stop...but they sometimes THINK they shouldn't.
Cool cars get you hot chicks duh...but ya, people are vain. That's why it doesn't make sense to be gay. In mainstream culture (although recently it is changing) gays are looked down upon like a rusty car. People tend to like what makes them look cool.
I actually think I've heard of Nancy Lieder before. I must check further into this. Sometimes I wish I were crazy. It would be great to talk to aliens!
Sorry this response wasn't very well thought out. I'm really feeling the need to exit the DN premises right now. I REALLY am sorry about your forum. I feel like crap about it, but I can't do anything.
